usage Close. Thank you for your time, Neither the groom nor bride appears to be living in Stepney. I am in the process of identifying all 64 of my 4th Great-grandparents, and was surprised to find out that two who we thought were “English” were only “English” for a couple generations, with their ancestors having immigrated there from the Netherlands. The earliest known church for Vandebaize is St Olive, which was saved by William Penn’s father and some men from the Navy yards nearby during the great fire of London 1666. If it were not for your post and for being able to use this website I doubt whether so much progress would have been made one one’s own effort and so what remains in common is the shared history. I also thought I saw the original Goudswaard village flag had the 6 stars of David. Here are the results. In the east of the Netherlands, people were called after the farm they were lived on. But it was worth doing anyway even if it shows up the limitations with DNA testing and is also useful to know when trying to interpret any test DNA result. So better to get this sorted out and corrected than not being sure about it. For this reason, a single family name can often be found in many different spellings in different documents. The DNA match will certainly help in that regard, thankyou. A list of names in which the usage is Dutch (page 2). Even though Cas is the short form of Casper, you can use this name on its own too. Being able to find any of these documents is a blessing. When I lived in Denver, a Councilmember, Mary De Groot, ran for mayor. What tips do you have for someone without any background info? – With a capital D when after Mrs or Mr (Mr De Groodt) This places the spouses of each John & Alice family, that is Alice Vandebaize and Alice Westfield in close proximity to one another and using the same churches earlier on. | Blog van Toon Kasdorp, https://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/english-versions-of-dutch-last-names/, Croscut, Cortschot, Crosscut, Croscutt, Koskoty, Te Grotenhouse, TeGrotenhouse, Grotenhouse, Wibbell, Wubbell, Wubbells, Wubbel, Wubble, Wubbles. For a place name one would need to be confident that Alice for example would be referring to a birth event for her Huguenot Grandparents in Weymouth around 1681 or a place event for the arrival of her Huguenot Great Grandparents in Weymouth. Many church records would be based on oral communication and name changes are not uncommon. Discover the meaning and history behind your last name. Any help would be appreciated as my husband has always wanted to know. Yes, the Huguenots came to the Netherlands too, mostly to the province of Zeeland but several families settled in Leiden and Amsterdam too. I am still learning more about this side of research as I know very little at the moment. It has become apparent that a quite few are building trees as numbers game and without any regard to the bona fides of what is being attached to these trees. I didn’t Know the Pyke surname came for the Surname Piek, that’s pretty intresting. Soldier Names. Means "prince" in Dutch, but almost never a surname for a prince. It’s all too reminiscent of Alice in Wonderland. One has to imagine say different amounts of small segments spread across 23 chromosomes, with those from say Adam and I inheriting a random amount spread out randomly across the 23 chromosomes. Van is a very common prefix in Dutch language surnames, where it is known as a tussenvoegsel. This record does not line up with a James Staines b1804 in St Leonards Shoredicth to John Staines and Alice Westfield, grandson of John Staines and Alice Vandebaize. James Staines, batchelor, of this Parish and Hetty Pont of the same were married. If john Weymouth Staines remarried in 1818 he would have been 41. I think that name may have been Van Duyzer originally (after Duysart in Scotland). In the History of France by M Michelet published in 1847 it is spelt Baize in English. So they were probably living in villages and cities when they got their name. So the possibility that James Staines who was born in St Leonards in December 1804 (right in the middle of my ancestor’s birth date range) with parents John and Alice remains open and therefore has not been solved as previously thought. I was only able to locate this Street because of an account of their history in Bethnal Green and locations on an old map provided by the Mallandain family web site. His grandfather’s first cousin Pauline Zellmer married Charles Henry or Henry Charles Bird there. There is no other census record that matches up. Meanings and Origins of Male Dutch Names. This list is not exhaustive, the US names could have come from other names too, or the Dutch names could have turned into other names. In the 1861 Census Mary is 10 but Hester is saying she is a bit younger and has lodgings with someone who presumably is able to look after her and is of a similar age. I have ancestors that emigrated to upstate New York long before our Revolutionary War, although I am not sure if they were Dutch or German. There are only two census records for Middlesex in 1841 with a John Staines born in the 18th century, one in Provost Street, St Leonards and the other in Edward St, St Matthews in the birth date range 1770 to 1790. Is Dutch ‘oo’ mostly pronounced as a ‘long o’ in American surnames (there is debate at my work how to pronounce the name of the American athlete Jesse Van Doozer)? The smaller “s” in all four cases end with a characteristic hook shape. Grateful if you could give some advice where to start searching please. I know my family came from holland way before I was bor nand im sure our name was changed. From my own personal point of view, I have one parent of Mediterranean descent however the test showed I had just over 25% south European. Each is remarkably similar and has a small flintlock pistol neatly built in at the hilt. For example from places like Cambrai and Lille. I was so pleased that you responded. Patronymics were common until English rule began in 1687 and despite new guidelines on surnames being introduced, were largely retained until the Napoleonic period when everyone had to register a family name. A Dutch patronymic is a man's name with its genitive ending, added as a surname, to the given name of a person who stands under his "patria potestate" (who belongs to his household). Adding to the confusion though is the bapt of Alice Staines to John and Alice in 1813 in Bethnal Green- John a weaver! But then there are many missing records as well as those moving into London to find work. The actual building blocks are selected at random and the final result can then be correlated into ethnicity groups. And then again it might no but all one can do is try out what ever is available. So that is something more solid to rely on and means there are only 2 John Staines (not 3), 2 Census records for 1841 and 2 death records to account for, and as assessed immediately above. This theory could be dispelled though as a widowed John Staines marries Charlotte Butterworth in St George the Martyr in 1818. My family Hoppe (Hopper now) came over from Reusel-de Mierder, Nordyk-Brabant, Netherlands before Sept 1651 and settled in In his place is a weaveress living with the family of the second marriage in 1841 in Edward St. Not all death records had a year of birth attached but apparently this one dated 3rd March 1844 (also in Edward St) did and is stated as 1781. I am electing to rule this out. (3) How much does popularity of a name (De Groot is a fairly common Dutch surname) condition the retention of Dutch sound-spelling correspondence? No match is coming up on the system and so it does not look like I have this ancestry. Have no explanation regarding ‘Bird’, but the spelling of my family’s name had to occur because English does not have the Dutch ‘letter’ “IJ” and thus either a ‘y’ (in long hand ij looks like a y with two dots above it) was substituted or an ‘ie’ replaced the ‘IJ’. One born in Bethnal Green 1777 and the other born outside Bethnal Green 1780-1781. I had come to the same finding in the last half hour and had prepared this next message. Everyone ends up having their annus horribilus. Following on from my earlier observation that some Dutch immigrants appeared to be putting the name Van in front as of the late 16th century (presumably to preserve their Dutch identity and heritage) I did some further searching using Baize. Great minds think alike is a saying. Thank you! By way of a contrast, her standards as a mother stand head and shoulders over the moral insanity inflicted upon others by the likes of the Plantaganets and the Tudors. This may all be a coincidence and it is Alice Vandebaize who is naming one her children with a middle name Weymouth. And you show Vink as becoming Fink or Phink but I have an ancestor whose surname appears to have been Vink/Vinck but his son (who was a child when they arrived from Rotterdam via Dover in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 18 Sep 1727) later used “Wink”. Being able to look at the actual document is far better than relying on transcribed documents on a computerised search tool. All were illiterate in English until the 20th century. Usage: Language + Letters. I, too have a German Palatine ancestor named Winegar…however in 1790 census and other earlier records in New York it is written as Vinegar which is apparently how it was heard by person writing it down…, I had an aunt (by marriage) who grew up in a German speaking community and she pronounced the letter ‘v’ as a ‘w’ when, and visa versa, when it was the first letter in any word — including my name as Wirgil. That is there are many John and Alices to take account of. It's interesting to note, that since 1990 , the only other time this surname report has been compiled by the U.S. Census Bureau, three Hispanic surnames —Garcia, Rodriguez, and Menendez—have risen into the top 10. The UI-UY sound: try the O of OOOnion. Marcia – happy to see your reply. So overall and despite the law of averages pointing to John Weymouth Staines because of the more usual age difference it does not appear to be lining up all that well with the above. Whilst these two Street locations could be a coincidence it is looking more like John who married Alice Westfield was born outside Bethnal Green between 1780-81. I recommend researching the family in the earliest place where you know they lived to find clues about their origins, including researching their friends and associates. I am a member of this family. It is a two part problem upstream and downstream that has been relying on best matching and very little other information. These Street names have changed but no list of changed names accounted for Anglesea St. The letter is to enable citizenship in England. It appears that I am also a descendant. You’re welcome! The Weymouth family head was a shipwright and then later a mariner. It is noted that in the same time period the children of Francis Staines (silk dyer) and Mary Staines (silk dyer) baptise their children at St Leonards and is the only other suggested Staines family but one with a highly specialised occupation connected to silk making albeit silk dying and is not evident in either of the John, Edward or Benjamin families. Walloons were known for their gun making skills and a number went to Scandinavia as well as Leiden where there was a French protestant church and hospital for Walloons. the pronunciation of Stuyvesant in New York with a ‘long i’ doesn’t surprise me, but, hypothetically, a street in Denver so pronounced would. James Staines 36 Butcher Y There are two burial records for Bethnal Green date 1844 and 1854. The ancestral contributions and reasons will be many fold and not limited to Staines ancestry. But when I do I can only find links for Facebook pages or news articles of people not really any historical data. James (b1801-1805 est) is my GGG Grandfather. Tamie, Dovenshock…Could that been “Dovenshoeck?” “deaf [people”s]corner” So “Hoeck”. I’m very excited about your information. And like asking what is English ethnicity it is fair to say that Belgium and French ethnicity is recognised as having an Iberian sub-group so to speak. Visitors since 2006 Either John Staines misled and deceived Charlotte or Charlotte misled and deceived those processing the Death record for 1844 or John W Staines died in infancy and another John Staines was born unto Alice Staines (nee Vandebaize) in Jan Feb 1781. I am excited to see what they find. Some silk dyers were able to become considerably wealthy. They sound catchy and bear deep meaning. Yvette Hoitink, CGSM is a board-certified genealogist in the Netherlands who helps people find their Dutch ancestors. They lived in Purton, Wiltshire and had a daughter Phillis who was born in 1782. London, England: London Metropolitan Archives, and (ii) England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975. Koenig in German and Konings in Dutch both mean King, so both names could have been translated to King in English. Maybe I will research New Amsterdam for that name. The mother may well come from a Huguenot background. Three hunting swords with the name VandeBaize have come to my attention. 90. It is consistent with the cosmopolitan mixture one might get from an Iberian Penninsula footprint even though it is attributed to a small amount. The definitive account of the origin of the name was written down by a well connected French Huguenot historian Louis Regnier de la Planche (full name) who was a confidant of the Queen Mother Catherine de Medici and he published a number of historical works in the 16th century. Son Charles appears to have joined the Navy 1845-1854. Fifth Batch experimental names: Vandersteen 1, de Pont 14, de Pond 14, le Pont 14, le Pond 14, Dupont 4, de la Croix 6, Steiner 6, Stiennes 0. It is fully acknowledged that this does not offer the certainty that would otherwise arise from a record that contained the surname Vandebaize as a witness or a middle name say in a record. And there was a 0.7% match (theoretical maximum 1.5%) for another cousin 3G up to one both 3G up and 4G down to his daughter. I have come to the view that the most likely explanation is two sets of parents John Staines and Alice with children all registered at St Matthew or St Leonards in Middlesex. Furthermore it is also clear that Charlotte Staines (nee Butterworth) as a widow then is the one in question on the 1851 Census in Poplar, where her date of birth is more accurately put as 1799-1800. She was the daughter of Charles Vandebaize and Martha, who married circa 1750, and had10 children. The ongoing disputes and protests were against Government Policy and not the Crown. The people who lived on this new farm would then call themselves after this new farm. There are two further replies for 2nd and 3rd of January 2020 under Jill Murray (nee Staines) 5th June 2019 1:08 pm post. That is living and being born in Bethnal Green and then having to move away in this case Northwards for a variety of reasons including work wasn’t unheard of. It is presumed Alice 1801 and John 1802 in the second group did not survive early childhood. The second group of 10 children cover the period 1801 to 1815 being Alice 1801, John 1802, James 1804, Elisabeth 1806, John 1808, twins Ann and William 1809, Thomas 1811, Alice 1813 and Mary 1815. Hi Ken So it is back to the drawing board. And the right spelling of “De” is There is one marriage record for Ysabelle de la Croix in Leiden in 1587 that records her birthplace as Wetterlo (Wetteren near Ghent) and her husband in Turqoin (Tourcoing near Lillie [L’Isle]). Beyond any reasonable doubt this is the same man some 19 years apart. Hello Pieter, By 1781 Alice Westfield is baptised in St Matthew Bethnal Green. Esther as a widow in 1851 and appears to have faired better than others in her circumstances. Their religious records are from the Reformed Church which could be either Dutch or German. It also implies John Weymouth Staines married another Alice say 1797 to 1800 when he would be 20-23 years of age. The furthest back I can find is a relative born in 1702 in Vaasen (Epe, Gelderland). Alice made a ‘mark’. So “De Lange” (“The Tall [one]. In between the two major immigration events in the 16th and 17th centuries are shortly thereafter they moved again to England. I have seen De Groodt AND De Groot in Belgium, And the only remaining family for John in the 18th century in Middlesex is that of John Staines and Alice Vandebaize. I have researched the Vandebaize family (and have found over 130 different spellings of the name) back to the 1630s in England. But as natural processes follow a Gaussian distribution there are other outcomes but less frequent where the ethnic composition of the offspring isn’t an average representation of the parents. The meaning of Cas is ‘imperial’. Usually marriage details are more reflective of the actual given birth name than how someone refers to themself later on. I also note the possibility of another Staines marrying a wife of Huguenot French origins. And there is an earlier John Westfield and another Alice around 1750 in the same area. The death record for a Hetty Pond in 1831 is I suspect a married name and not related. I see St Mary Islington had to be rebuilt after 1940 and accounts for the more modern features, which are different from the original ones from an old photograph. What if any spelling variations did he use for his name? It became apparent that combining rather than comparing was a valid step. – Vedders (sometimes found as Fedders) Topographical Surnames I have a few leads but I need to clarify one or two points before proceeding to see whether I am tracing the correct line. What might a crafty old horse do I wonder? 1844, Stepney). His son Edmond (Railway Inspector) from his second marriage is living in Anglesea St, which is about 6 short block widths South-South East from St Mathew and remarkably close. George did not get married in the UK, as a mariner he sailed to the other side of the world. The Weymouth Huguenots consisted of a mixture French Speaking who departed La Rochelle in France and old French Speaking from the Spanish Netherlands who spoke at least one of 4 old French languages. Schout is a title wich was used then for a civil servant usually used for juicidal and or any legal servants. The ancestors I’m looking for are leendertse Phillip konijn, or conyn…so many different spellings I’ve seen. We will never know what the truth of this aspect is. The burial record for a John Staines in Bethnal Green in 1844 gives a place of death as Edward St, which is just 2 short block widths west of St Matthew. Submitted names are contributed by users of this website. If James Weymouth Staines (b1804) is the groom he would be around 22-25 years of age when he got married. Prefixes often get stuck to the name: ten Pas becomes Tenpas, de Jong becomes Dejong. Huguenots were Nobles, Doctors, Lawyers, Historians, Intellectuals, Craftsman and Artisans and loyal to the Crown. 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